Sheila Marcelo

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

We can leverage the power of technology for efficiency, affordability, immediate access, safety, all these things that are important for families, at the same time, have the human touch.

Sam Saperstein:

Welcome to the Women on the Move podcast from JPMorgan Chase. I'm Sam Saperstein. Women on the Move is a global initiative designed to empower female employees, clients, and consumers to build their careers, grow their businesses, and improve their financial health. Each episode will feature successful and inspiring women who are breaking the mold. They're sharing their career journeys and leadership lessons, talking about their professional and personal goals, and making a difference in the lives of others. This season, I'm taking you to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, where I caught up with many of the women who inspire me every day.

Sam Saperstein:

In today's episode, I'm introducing you to a serial entrepreneur who took her own challenging experiences with caregiving, and created a company to address the issue for herself and millions of others. Sheila Lirio Marcelo founded Care.com, a thriving online platform, which now serves millions of families and caregivers around the world. She recently launched another company called Landit, which is an online career management platform. In this episode, Sheila and I will discuss her experience launching Care.com, the economic impact of caregiving, and how we can improve the lives of caregivers themselves. I hope you enjoy the conversation. So Sheila, thank you so much for joining us.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Thank you Sam for having me.

Sam Saperstein:

It's great to see you here at Davos.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

I'm excited.

Sam Saperstein:

So you are the founder of Care.com?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Yes.

Sam Saperstein:

And I really want to get into this story, and I really want to start with, why did you start the company, and what led you to do this, a personal story behind this?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

I was born and raised in the Philippines, and I came here for college, and then got pregnant. It was not part of the plan. I got pregnant between my sophomore and junior year. I now have a 28 year old.

Sam Saperstein:

Wow.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

And am enjoying empty nesting, but at the time, a struggle in debt. Ryan, our older son was really the inspiration. Because what I found, not having my parents live in this country, in the United States, that is, and my husband's parents were deceased, we didn't really have a lot of access to care, and yet, we were pursuing our careers. And so, we completed undergrad, went to grad school, went through our careers, and didn't have great access. And so, where were we going to go? Here we were, catapulted during that time into the internet space, because that was the hot space to be, yet we were in technology companies, and we were using the Yellow Pages for care.

Sam Saperstein:

To find people to help you.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

That's right.

Sam Saperstein:

And that's what you had to do with no family around.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Exactly. And so, childcare I think is really common, but then at 29, I became sandwiched between childcare and senior care, because fast forward, my father fell backwards carrying our younger son Adam up the stairs.

Sam Saperstein:

Wow.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

He's alive today, but he also suffered a heart attack, and so we had to find care for him.

Sam Saperstein:

Wow. Immediately?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Yes. And while being a dual income family, and as you know Sam, more and more the high percentages of dual income families, because we want increased female participation in the workplace, so we really need care.

Sam Saperstein:

So that is a very personal reason. So all of a sudden, you realized you had to find care quickly.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

That's right.

Sam Saperstein:

Find affordable care, find high quality care.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Yes.

Sam Saperstein:

And I will tell you, I'm actually a Care.com customer.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Awesome.

Sam Saperstein:

I've used it several times for actually childcare and housekeeping services. So I know very well what the platform can offer, which I think is great. When you started the company, and you had this great idea, and you went out there for funding, what was your funding experience like as a female founder?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

I didn't really have a lot of funding experience. I was fortunate enough that I was working in another internet company that I was helping scale. It was the second one I was at, I was employed to really help be the GM and expand it, because I had some technology background. And a board member saw my work there and then invited me to join a venture capital firm to be an entrepreneur in residence. Sam, I didn't even know what that meant. But they said, "Hey, we will pay you to write a business plan, and we want to invest in things that you're interested in," and I was very interested in the family health care space, something that would help women, since I'm super passionate about that, given my own experience. And so, I was fortunate enough that in my first year, we were able to raise about $7.5 million-

Sam Saperstein:

That's amazing. Wow.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

... From Scratch, because we didn't have a product built.

Sam Saperstein:

This was all based on a vision?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

It was based on a vision. And I probably was one of the first few women backed by VCs to really scale companies. And at Matrix, what was exciting is they invited me in two other deals to assess, and after Care.com, they started investing in other female founded companies.

Sam Saperstein:

That's great.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

So that's really exciting.

Sam Saperstein:

Yeah, you seemed to be able to open the door then for other women in the space, not only as founders, but maybe also as just the types of businesses that they were starting-

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Exactly.

Sam Saperstein:

... If they were around.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

What's challenging is because as you know, there's just, and the 97% of VCs are still men, and all of that. The challenge is their own personal experience, they apply to the products and services that they're interested in, and especially if you're raising an A round, it's a hope and prayer. You're backing somebody who is either experienced through your network, and so many women are not overly network.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

And so the role modeling I think is really important to show that it can scale, because the next phase beyond fundraising is, can you scale a company? Do you have the experience to actually scale it all the way through, and can you take it public? Can you access the capital markets at all the different stages? And so that's also been challenging. And I would say as much as I can, I try and mentor and paid forward to other women to say it's very doable, it's very possible. And so I'm inspired when I see Rent the Runway, With Jean, and Stitch Fix and so many of these amazing female founded companies that are now just scaling, and just out of this world, which is really awesome.

Sam Saperstein:

So during those times where you were writing the business plan, going out and talking to folks, did you encounter questions from potential investors on the business itself, anything around, "Do women really need this?" Or "How would that work?" Or the tough questions they were giving you?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Yeah, I think that those questions still happen to the businesses that I just mentioned, and the women and the female founders are challenged. Often I had to remind male VCs to ask their wives, and ask the women in their lives if this is relevant, because their immediate is to jump initially, of course, to the business model, which happy to discuss and it's going to be based on the unit economics and the profitability of each widget or service that is, that's created. But in general, unless they personally experience it themselves. And that's why for me, I remember at Matrix being invited to other companies like Gilt Groupe where I was there in the assessment of the deal because they're not a lot of women in those rooms. And of course, that's one that I'm passionate about is, how do we get more female VCs? And I know Eileen Lee, and so many others are pursuing that path, which is super exciting.

Sam Saperstein:

Yeah. So that will help to better understand these companies So caregiving is such a personal service of course, and you're bringing technology to help to solve for that. How do you match technology with such a human endeavor at the end of the day?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

That's right. It's interesting, Sam. The common topic now is the fear of machine learning. And then most jobs are going away. We're in a unique space where we can leverage the power of technology for efficiency, affordability, immediate access, safety, all these kinds of things that are important for families. At the same time have the human touch. I often refer to the importance of AI plus AHI. And that's the human interface. And then, we need to build businesses thinking about that. And also, how do we build businesses for the good, as opposed to creating problems?

Sam Saperstein:

So how did the platform evolve from, let's say the first iteration to now, in terms of what you know about people, what you know about caregivers or what you know about the users and their needs?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

I think it's important to develop the product listening to consumers. So, we launched a product focused on childcare senior care, Pitcairn tutoring because we knew you have a chief household officer and she often-

Sam Saperstein:

Has to do all those things.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

... 95% of the time has to make all those decisions. And then a couple of years later we added housekeeping, because many moms said to us that "Listen, afterschool is really important to me and that's still care, but when my kids are doing homework, it'd be great if I could get additional help because I'm still working full time, and even helping with meals and all of that." And that still considered care.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

So, this service has really evolved as we thought about adding multiple services. The other place that we're innovating now, and the company super excited about it is really moving to on demand. We bought a company called Trusted last year, based in California, and given the Uber and Airbnb dynamics, and the expectation around the power of the mobile phone to have immediate access to anything, there's a desire by users, and especially millennials to move to on demand. Now, that's asking for a caregiver to show up at your doorstep sign and seen as babysitter. That's a little scary, right?

Sam Saperstein:

Right, it's different than a lift or ride.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Exactly. So which is one of the reasons we invested in safety heavily, as we think about marketplaces and the evolution of those marketplaces, especially when it comes to people services, the investment in safety is I think, critical.

Sam Saperstein:

For the future.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

And part of the other evolution is really thinking from the get go that we designed this as a two sided marketplace. And it's interesting that the majority of seekers and families, the chief household officer is the mom and a majority of caregivers, as you know, is mom. And Care.com is a very female focused platform. And so what kind of advocacy do we need to do? Not only for safety of caregivers and making sure that they could trust the website, but they can get jobs and that they're treated fairly.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Years ago, we were really one of the first platforms that just said, "You can't hire unless it's above minimum wage." Because on average caregivers are paid 10 or $11 an hour. And yet our golf caddies are paid 17 bucks an hour. And so how do you create advocacy using the power of the platform as well to really represent women?

Sam Saperstein:

And what about to providing guidelines for people starting out around contracts or asking for roles and responsibilities in their job? I mean, you've offered these things to people on the platform, which is really amazing.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

We do, we give a lot of advice. In fact, two of our most popular tools are what we call the babysitter calculator. And so people want to know, "What's the going rate, what's the right way to pay?" And then when holidays come around, "What's the right amount to tip?"

Sam Saperstein:

Yes. Everybody would love to know that.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Right. And what we've decided from the founding of the companies, how do we professionalize care? Because if in fact you don't focus on professionalizing care, then we won't have the people there are people doing loved ones.

Sam Saperstein:

The right people doing it. I think that's such an amazingly important piece of it. It's not just helping women who need the care in the home, to also do their professional careers and endeavors, but professionalizing the caregiver role itself.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

That's right.

Sam Saperstein:

So how can we do that better? How can we all do a better job of that?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Absolutely. So, part of the vision and design of the company in 2012, we acquired a company called Breedlove & Associates, which is now called HomePay. And so we facilitate and teach families to have access to [pay board 00:11:36], ensure that they're getting workers' compensation, that they get benefits-

Sam Saperstein:

So making it a more professional job?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Exactly. And at the same time we also integrated platforms that provided access to health care. We even launched benefit bucks, which there's a percentage of transactions that if you decided to pay your babysitter on Care.com, we donate a certain percentage as well as a family would donate, conscious capitalism. And that amount of money we put in a card. Actually, you know what? JPMorgan helped us think through this.

Sam Saperstein:

Great.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

And we put it in a card, and that card, a caregiver can go from job, to job, to job in multiple families they can work for, and they could use that card to pay for pharmacy benefits, pay for gas, pay for things in daily living just to support them.

Sam Saperstein:

That's amazing. That's great. And so now they have a portability almost to the benefit like that and then the benefit-

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Exactly. We called that pooled portability.

Sam Saperstein:

That's great. I've seen some research that you've done with Harvard Business School around caring companies, and the notion of caregiving as a serious economic endeavor, which costs a lot obviously for people who pursue it. What were you using that research to do and to convey?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

So part of the reason I'm at Davos is because we launched a business in about 2011 called Care@Work, which actually takes the platform and helps companies be able to provide it as a benefit, either the online service or overall backup care. The really important thing is, we'd start to think about employment is, "How do companies think about the ROI of investing in these benefits?"And so we worked closely with Joe Fuller at HBS to support anything that they were doing around the measurement of what they called a caring company.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

And one of the things they found is, many companies don't know how to measure, or don't even think about measuring the impact on their employees with regards to care. And yet we know at Care.com that one of the key drivers of absenteeism is actually care, because if it's your loved one-

Sam Saperstein:

Sick child, appearance-

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

... You're not going to step out the door.

Sam Saperstein:

You can't.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

I often describe care as similar to roads and bridges, in terms of infrastructure. You're going to be less worried about your tax dollars going into potholes and fixing those things, if you can't even step out of your home because you don't want to have great infrastructure for your loved ones.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

And so if there's an economic benefit, and I spend quite a bit of time advocating for that, which is the past several years I've been coming in Davos to enlightened leaders around, how the importance of care really drives the economy, but because it drives labor and jobs, and I always say care equals jobs.

Sam Saperstein:

I was fascinated to look at that research, because it does make you think about the care that you need to provide to your own family, and that your company really doesn't take a very large role in that.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Thy don't.

Sam Saperstein:

So everything you do, you largely do by yourself-

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

That's right.

Sam Saperstein:

... Or you do it very informally with friends and family or network, but your company doesn't usually provide that benefit or support. How are companies starting to do more of that now?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

I think it's massively changing. I think for a number of years, many companies were setting up daycares at headquarters. But that's becoming anachronistic in a sense because of remote employees, the expectation of millennials-

Sam Saperstein:

Well, it's also very expensive and sometimes it's only backup emergency care.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Exactly. And it's very difficult to, when you have a sick child, and if you're commuting 30 minutes away, to actually put them on the train and put them in the backup care situation.

Sam Saperstein:

Well, just simply very hard.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Right. So online actually can serve that, because Care.com is very ubiquitous, and we serve pretty much close, and I think it's like 97% of the zip codes across the country. So you're able to find the care you need that actually serves your family. And I think more and more companies are seeing that. So what's interesting, Sam, is, it's not just the corner office and the corporate executives, what we're seeing is frontline retail, Starbucks now servicing their baristas to provide backup care, and care-

Sam Saperstein:

It's terrific.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

... Grocery stores in the Midwest. Myers is doing it now, Best Buy. So I think companies are starting to realize, and I often describe to people why low income workers, how is that economic for them? And I said, if you think about it, that's revenue for the company. If you don't have those front line workers-

Sam Saperstein:

They are not selling things.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

... How are they going to show up to work to actually drive the growth of the company? So the way to think about care is not it's actual cost driver, it actually is a growth driver.

Sam Saperstein:

That's an investment. I think that's great. So you've also founded something called Landit.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Yes.

Sam Saperstein:

To boost diversity in the workplace. Let's talk about that. What does the organization actually focused on?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

My co-founder Lisa Skeete Tatum and I had this shared vision, and we came to it in a different paths around our experiences, but she went the corporate path. She became a VC, and I went the entrepreneur path. But something is common that we both experience is that the question that says there's a pipeline problem, and why isn't it up in the corner office, we continue to be in the-

Sam Saperstein:

We can't find the goal candidates.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

... Single digit percentages. And that, I remember chief executives that I would meet with or CHROs, or diversity officers will ask me and say, "Well, I get cares an important pillar to advance women, but we're having pipeline problems too." And I said, "Well, that's a different business." And so that's where Lisa and I co founded this company, and Landit is really focused on personal coaching that's 24/7 accessible, a personal branding, and really helping women build their confidence, assess their competencies, teach them negotiation skills. Because sometimes when we lack confidence, we don't want to be vulnerable and ask for help of our direct managers, who we feel are going to judge us.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

And so Landit has just been successful at helping a lot of corporations now. So, it's nice, and Landit and Care.com have a special relationship that of course, was independently decided on, because of course I'm CEO of a public company, but it's excites me that there's a natural fit between the two.

Sam Saperstein:

Absolutely. I mean, you're thinking about your home life, at the same time, your professional life. And so how to individuals use Landit? Do they use it through companies sponsorships, or they can use it themselves, if they want it directly?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Yeah, that's right. Just like Care@Work is that benefit is provided, and then this specific on coaching is provided by the company.

Sam Saperstein:

So with all of these ventures that you've had, this is so unbelievable, you've started many, you've acquired many. Who has helped you along the way? Who are some of your mentors?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

I have had incredible mentors along the way that are both male and female. And I think what's hard is, I think as a woman, I feel it's an obligation to pay it forward to other women. I was fortunate enough that I had many men because again, there are a few percentages of women who are senior enough to actually help coach with the scaling. And so that started with the VC firms, and the partners, and the VC firms that just continue to believe in me. Tony Florence, for example in NEA, who was raised by his mom and grandma, and he was, I think covered by Forbes as being one of the top VCs that support women, and I was one of the first that he actually invested in.

Sam Saperstein:

Oh, so you know personally.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

And I think I, if I recall in that Midas touch lists, his 30% of his investments go towards female founders now.

Sam Saperstein:

That his great.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

That is massive, and he considers it a competitive advantage.

Sam Saperstein:

I'm sure.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

So, mentors in my life that have really entered in my Filipino American community, I've had one other Filipino American take company public. There's two of us really.

Sam Saperstein:

That is a very small universe.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

It's a very small universe.

Sam Saperstein:

How do we get that to grow?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Which is, we need to coach more, and [Datto Bernardo 00:19:10] and his wife Maria, over labor day, the year before we went public spent three dinners with my husband and I sat us down and coached us and said, "As you prepare to take the company public, here are the things you think about. How do you teach your children values? How do you stay true to your purpose despite the success?" So that is just so special. And so in any way that I develop those strong relationships that I can mentor, I think it just is so important.

Sam Saperstein:

So what are some of the challenges that you've had to face? What were out there that was on your mind?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

I think that gender and being a minority. When you tell that story, and you're telling it to friends who are men, often scratch their heads and say, "Really? Why don't you use that as an optimistic advantage point that you have because you're different." The reality is there are challenges. I remember when we were taking the company public, and we were traveling around the country and specifically, one of the challenges I faced was, I went to go to the bathroom and then I got back to the room and I was offering to give coffee to the investors on the other side. And they were shaking hands with my CFO, and they said "Hello," and made the introductions and got to me, and they're like, "You must be the assistant from the bank."

Sam Saperstein:

Oh, no.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

So, I have so many of these stories Sam. And the thing on the optimism side is I have to often remind myself, because I could respond in angry. I have found that responding in a logical, thoughtful way, and an intelligent way to their questions, I actually think breaks through bias. Because, I don't need to salt the wound of the mistake that's already been made in their unconscious bias. And so I think they will remember the grace in which I responded to the situation, so that they're reminded the next time it happens to not jump there, given whoever is across the table.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

And so I called this authentic boldness that we have to do and be respectful in a sense of just being true to who we are, that it can be achieved through optimism rather than the negativity of saying, "Hey, I'm a woman. And so I'm always challenged," as opposed to "How do I use that as a strength, the starfish principle to change the next person and the next person's attitude?"

Sam Saperstein:

Yes, they will certainly remember that. That's really hard to do. It's amazing you can, and not have that reaction of "I'm the founder, and CEO right here." Do you ever use humor to defuse situations like that?

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Oh, I have. Absolutely. It's not easy, and I think you just have to remind yourself, understand the context where somebody's coming from. Are they fighting for relevance? Are they fighting for understanding? Because the world is changing in what they naturally know, in the way they were brought up, or I'm always trying to understand what is the other person's context. I know mine, and the most that I can do is expose you to my context, and hopefully that changes how your outlook will be for the next person you meet.

Sam Saperstein:

It's very generous approach. I love that. Thank you so much Sheila, it's such a pleasure.

Sheila Lirio Marcelo:

Sam, thank you.

Sam Saperstein:

Thank you for everything. Thanks to Sheila for sharing her insights on caregiving and entrepreneurship. As a personal user of Care.com, I found it fascinating to hear the story behind the company. Thank you for joining us today. The mission of Women on the Move is to help women in their professional and personal lives. Our goal is to introduce you to people with great ideas, inspiring stories, and a passion to make a difference. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe so you won't miss any others. Thank you to our partners at the female quotient at Magnet Media for helping us tell these stories. For JPMorgan Chase's Women on the Move, I'm Sam Saperstein.